February 12, 2009 at 15:44 #938Attila SikParticipant
User storable scales
i often find i wish i could call up a preset scale of my own for a grid or pattern , the presets are cool but maybe it would be possible to extend these to add some user defined scales ? i like the exotic ones myself and oriental stuff – i know its easy to draw in but it would be cool to press a couple of buttons and have 16 user scales maybe.
mattFebruary 17, 2009 at 11:28 #2271gseherKeymaster
OK, so you mean have some user defined scales be ready to be called directly, after you have composed them, right? Indeed, this is working nicely on the Nemo, so no reason to not carry it over! Will look into it.
GabrielFebruary 18, 2009 at 13:10 #2276Attila SikParticipant
thats it gabriel , just some places to store user scales would be great .
b]gseher wrote:[/b]Quote:OK, so you mean have some user defined scales be ready to be called directly, after you have composed them, right? Indeed, this is working nicely on the Nemo, so no reason to not carry it over! Will look into it.
GabrielJuly 5, 2009 at 23:56 #2278
What I would love (here we go again – me me me) would be to have one input of the octopus set to receive chords, and each time a chord is input (eg from an external controller keyboard) all the pages that respond to scales automatically jump to the scale defined by the input chord (and obviously all pages that are drum tracks don’t change*).
So i guess pages would need to be set to "incoming scale on port two" or something. This would be brilliant, although user preset scales would be a good work around (are these in place yet?) .
MattJuly 6, 2009 at 07:24 #2433
Nice idea! Please help me better understand how this would work though. In particular, how does "the scale defined by the input chord" really look like? For 1 note, 2 notes, 3 notes, etc..
gabrielJuly 9, 2009 at 22:54 #2434
gseher wrote:Quote:Nice idea! Please help me better understand how this would work though. In particular, how does "the scale defined by the input chord" really look like? For 1 note, 2 notes, 3 notes, etc..
i guess the simplest way might be to have the scale consist only of the notes simultaneously entered on the keyboard. eg if a c,e,g,a,a# or something were entered then all sequencer notes would be ‘quantised’ to these values in their respective octave (similar to how arpeggiators work) – not sure how you’d spec the ‘quantising’ but i guess you already have a method with your other force to scale function?
does that make sense?!
cheers mattJuly 10, 2009 at 16:32 #2438
there was a similar discussion a while ago, see
I don’t have a Octopus, but I’m currently writing my own sequencer in Max/Msp that does use chordrecognition for manipulating sequences in realtime. It probably goes too far to descibe the whole process here, but Gabriel can contact me anytime for more info. [file name=testchordsmax2.mp3 size=2927340]http://genoqs.net/components/com_joomlaboard/uploaded/files/testchordsmax2.mp3[/file]July 10, 2009 at 16:37 #2441
I tried attaching a little demo sequence see above post, but I’m getting errors about maximum file size upload etc, so I’m not sure it’s in the list.
Anyway, he main sequence is just an ordinary keyscale in C minor. The pad chords in the background are just the chords I played. The sequences follows the chordinput. It’s not 100% perfect because the triggering was not quit right sometimes.July 10, 2009 at 16:37 #2442
sorry, double post, can’t delete this one.
Post edited by: bronswerk, at: 2009/07/10 18:38July 11, 2009 at 16:21 #2443AdamParticipant
What I would like to is something like this:
You set a page to participate in "input real-time transposition" (somehow). (Hold Record and tap scale?)
Those pages listen to a specific MIDI Channel/Port (fixed as channel 16 port 2 works for me, but whatever).
When MIDI notes come in on the specified channel, the Octopus listens for the note-off messages and then reassigns the pitches of all participating pages based on the note-on order, first note depressed assigned to row 0, increasing by row, and rows above notes played unaltered.
So: If I hold, say, notes 60, 63 and 67 (in that order), and then release them, upon release, all participating pages have row zero assigned a default pitch of 60, row 1 = 63, row 2 = 67 and all other rows unaltered. After that if I press note 72, row zero is assigned a new value while all other rows maintain their current values.
This way I could keep "all notes functioning as a root note" on row 0, and then preserve their melodic/harmonic function while changing keys by pressing the notes of a chord in ascending order, or reassign row 0’s harmonic/melodic function by pressing the notes down in a different order (for other variations).
Also it should only effect row default pitch, but not step offsets, so that I can transpose things in another manner if I want things to work that way.
This would be PERFECT for how I work, but I know that might not work for everyone.July 14, 2009 at 08:44 #2449
One problem I see here is that you will in most cases alter the pitch of the bottom rows, but changing the pitch of the top rows will require a lot of fingers
Would it not be better to work with force to scale and have the keys influence the scale rather than the track pitches directly?July 16, 2009 at 02:32 #2457AdamParticipant
Well, I can appreciate your argument, but that’s at odds with how I would like to work. Of course, usability and majority preference is more important than my unique wishes.
With that in mind:
Let’s say I’m playing in A natural minor, and I want to change to C major. With all the same notes, the user scale functionality as you describe (force to scale) obviously does nothing. All the notes are already to diatonic to both keys.
With my method, if I had all my root notes on row 0, etc, I can then input a new key which decides exactly what the end product is; that is, a I chord before transposition can be controlled to be a I chord afterward. Conversely, if I wanted to invert a melody, I could input the notes for the transposition in reverse sequence.
By your method, a particular note might be common to both keys, and then I end up with unpredictable melodic or harmonic arrangements (because it might have been the tonic in the first key but the supertonic of the new key, and so my sequence might be suddenly putting an odd emphasis on the supertonic.)
Or, by your method, when a particular note is no longer in the new scale, you can also end up with peculiar arrangements, like it being bumped to a sixth, which might be interesting but might sound awful.
Now, less perfectly predictable things can be inspirational, and the ease of use of your method is a certain benefit. But for me, my method lets me produce some more interesting results.July 22, 2009 at 11:50 #2458
gseher wrote:Quote:One problem I see here is that you will in most cases alter the pitch of the bottom rows, but changing the pitch of the top rows will require a lot of fingers
Would it not be better to work with force to scale and have the keys influence the scale rather than the track pitches directly?
i think this makes more intuitive sense to me…July 22, 2009 at 12:17 #2470
Looking at page 119 in my manual on External Scale Editing we could just use a similar process for the global (grid) scale.
Arming for external scale edit:
Hold GRID and press REC then enter scale mode by pressing SCALE SEL
Editing current scale:
Current scale is determined by incoming midi ‘chords’.
eg if you press C3, F2, A4, all notes generated (that aren’t fixed by specific page scales) will be C, F and A in their respective octaves (their respective programmed ones, not the keyed ones – perhaps we have the first key of the ‘chord’ determining the base octave of the transposition relative to octave 3 eg C3 would give no base octave transposition but C4 would shift everything up an octave etc)
Letting go of all keys in the ‘chord’ essentially fixes the current scale. Any new key presses will start a new scale and instantly clear the previous one.
Press REC again or SCALE SEL again
What do you think Garbiel? I could generate some example tables of what I mean if you like when i get chance?
MattJuly 23, 2009 at 09:45 #2471
Hi Matt, thanks again, and yes, please do put it all into a table if you get a chance.
I am evaluating this, and I have a feeling there is much fun to be had. I am getting also excellent input "ofline" (via email), and it seems there is quite some variation in the ideas about how this all should work..
Very exciting ideed!
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