Edit modes and complexity

[Lars D. Terkelsen]

I am very frequently being surprised about what EDIT state I am in. The new additional modes does add some to the confusion, but I just discovered that the EDIT mode is remembered for each page. So when you go to a new page you might also be going to a new EDIT mode. Some people will probably regard this as a nice feature, but I would just love the simplicity of being able to set the mode and jump between pages with no worries.
How do you guys feel about it?

I am sure the new EDIT modes gives important features, (I don´t remember which off the top of my weary head), but I must say that I feel an overall increase in complexity that I am not too crazy about. I think we must face that for this piece of hardware, there is a limit somewhere to how many features can be added whithout compromising the joy of using it. And if the joy of using it dies, then all the features in the world is not gonna be of much good.

At the moment I just feel like I am constantly in the wrong EDIT mode. I hope I can work my way through it.

[Julian Parker]

I completely agree with this, it’s my one big problem with the interface of the Octo/Nemo. I feel like a lot of features that are useful for basic editing are spread out between normal PAGE mode, the Page EDIT modes and STEP mode, without a quick enough path between them and without any obvious musical reason for the feature being only available where it is. For example, if I want to edit step lengths using the new ‘press 2 steps’ method (which I love!), I have to be in Page EDIT mode and can’t switch to STEP mode to do detailed editing(of chords for example) without first clicking back into normal Page mode. It’s confusing!

[Lars D. Terkelsen]

Haha, there are so many modes that I am not quite sure what you are talking about here. Just to make clear: I am talking about the different coulours and blinking patterns of the EDIT button light.
To analyze a bit:

Before: There was two EDIT modes. If I was not in the right mode, I knew that one press on EDIT and I was in the right mode.

Now: There are three EDIT modes (actually four), which you cycle through. If I am not in the right mode I have to click EDIT and watch the LED to have the right colour. That does not sound like a big deal, but for me that is a whole different ballgame. Something that my brain interprets as a 400% increase in complexity.

[Julian Parker]

Yeah, we’re talking about the same thing I guess even discussing it is a little confusing!

[Adam]

Personally, I feel the new edit mode (Berlin-style) is necessary. I don’t use the other edit mode (where any step press plays that note) at present, but I can certainly conceive of uses for it (using an Octopus page to replace a conventional keyboard, which I have considered doing – performance-wise, watching someone play an Octopus is mysterious while watching someone play keyboards is familiar).

So I think they’re all necessary, but if you’re having trouble navigating, maybe we could have both edit modes but have some sort of grid-mode selection method where you can toggle which one is active. That is, on Grid, a certain button combo toggles between the two styles above for any page set to edit. That way you still have access to everything, but in page mode we reduce the number of modes to cycle through, and if you only use one of them you never have to worry about the other.

(Note I’m at work and might have used "edit" where I should have used "preview", or something. Don’t have a manual here.)

[Carlos Dalla-Fiore]

I’m al for Berlin style and more depth in the OS, but agree with the complexity issues.

Having said that, a global edit mode for pages sounds fine to me.

I think the SEL(lock) button could come in handy for the extra modes in PAGE keeping the basic functions as they are now by making the "Berlin" stuff (which i really like) active by holding the SEL button when hitting EDIT.

The same could be said for different switching modes in GRID (instant or on 1st beat) Holding SEL(lock) while hitting one of the bank SEL buttons could toggle the "instant" switching modes instead of classic.

This way the basic functionality stays the sane, and the extra features come at the price of button combos.

[rachel polanskis]

Can one of you walk me through the edit modes so I can work out which one is Berlin mode?

For example, I turn my Octopus on and I have a Page selected. What do I do next?
What settings do I need to make for an individual track or page?

I do not seem to have this mode working even though I am on the latest firmware.

rachel

[Lars D. Terkelsen]

Pushing EDIT will cycle you through the modes. The EDIT led will light accordingly so you can tell one mode from the other. I am not at the Octo, but I think the one refered to as "Berlin" would be the third mode.

[rachel polanskis]

Ok, when I turn on my Octopus and it comes up in Page Mode (PAGE is flashing),
the default for the EDIT is green.

If I press EDIT once, I get Orange flashing LED.

If I press it again, I get Green flashing LED.

Which one is Berlin mode? And then what other conditions must be set to get this to work?

It does not seem to work for me, no matter what "mode" I use the EDIT switch for.

So perhaps I am missing other values that need to be set somewhere as well?

rachel

[john Kimble]

I’ll chime in here… I just got done using the new OS for a bit and I agree that the EDIT modes need some reworking, having three states to move through is too much "thinking".

Having a modifier button to use when entering "berlin" EDIT mode would seem to work better, that way the mode doesn’t interfere with the workflow we have grown accustom to.

cheers
ripe

[B Johansson]

Hello all!

From page 57 in the manual (1.62):

"EDIT PERFORM is actually similar to the EDIT state, with the exception that no MIDI data is transmitted when you operate on the matrix. This is particularly interesting for the Berlin School type of performances.

By default, in PAGE mode the EDIT LED button lights
green. Click on it once to toggle it to blinking orange, and
once more to make it blink green.

Again, when the EDIT LED lights steady green, everything
behaves as you know it: the step buttons toggle the step states. When
EDIT blinks orange you are in EDIT mode, and when EDIT blinks
green you are in EDIT PERFORM mode."

The EDIT PERFORM a.k.a. "Berlin School" = EDIT blinks green.

Cheers
Bo

[Lars D. Terkelsen]

ripe wrote:

Quote:

I’ll chime in here… I just got done using the new OS for a bit and I agree that the EDIT modes need some reworking, having three states to move through is too much "thinking".

Having a modifier button to use when entering "berlin" EDIT mode would seem to work better, that way the mode doesn’t interfere with the workflow we have grown accustom to.

cheers
ripe

Thanks ripe for chiming in. It is good to hear that I am not the only "old" user who is not happy about the extra mode. "Too much thinking" is exactly how I feel about it. Your idea about using a modifier button to enter "berlin" seems fine.

[Adam]

I *really* don’t want to lose Berlin mode, though.

[Lars D. Terkelsen]

Quote:

I *really* don’t want to lose Berlin mode, though.

Agree. Actually I find that the Berlin mode (aka EDIT PERFORM state) is what I always wanted the EDIT state to be like.

So may I propose, that the new EDIT PERFORM state (Berlin) takes the place of EDIT state, and we go back to having the EDIT button switch between two states. The old EDIT state could be reached by holding some other button while pressing EDIT.

How do you like that guys?

[Julian Parker]

LDT wrote:

Quote:

Quote:

I *really* don’t want to lose Berlin mode, though.

Agree. Actually I find that the Berlin mode (aka EDIT PERFORM state) is what I always wanted the EDIT state to be like.

So may I propose, that the new EDIT PERFORM state (Berlin) takes the place of EDIT state, and we go back to having the EDIT button switch between two states. The old EDIT state could be reached by holding some other button while pressing EDIT.

How do you like that guys?

I’d like that a great deal personally! With the addition of the ability to zoom into step/track mode via double-click from the ‘Berlin’ state, things would be perfect!

It would also bring the function of the EDIT button in Page mode somehow closer to it’s function in Grid mode i.e. green EDIT LED means you can toggle steps or pages, and yellow EDIT led means you can tweak steps or pages. Conceptually clearer and more musical in my opinion!

[Author]

Posts