Cluster groups

[gseher]

Hi,

Just got my Nemo 2 days ago, so maybe I’m missing something.

I like 32+ steps patterns, the easy way to do this is with track chaining, if I had an Octopus, I would do this, but with a Nemo, it eats too many tracks.

Page Clusters can be used for this, but you can only cluster all pages in a bank.

What if you could create groups of clustered pages then you could switch between groups with the unused matrix buttons in grid track mode?

Add to this the ability to record to all pages in a cluster without manually switching pages.

I hope this makes sense.

Guillaume

[gseher]

Sorry for the duplicate post, not sure how that happened.

[gseher]

I dont exactly know what you mean by the switching, but multiple clusters per bank would be good.

[gseher]

I’m happy to hear someone else would like multiple clusters per bank.

I think I cut some corners in my initial explanation, so here’s the long version.

If you could make multiple clusters per bank, each group of clusters could include a different number of pages.

How would you see which pages are part of which cluster group and select which group is playing?

We would need a way to identify different groups in grid mode. Possibly using different colors for the first page of a group, for example a 2 page cluster would have a green page and an orange page, orange indicating it is the second page of a cluster.

This way you could switch between different cluster groups by selecting the first page of a cluster group. We could also switch group by selecting another page than the first one, but we need to see which page is first.

Now the grid track thing.

Each cluster group could be represented by a single slot in grid track mode, regardless of the number of pages in the group.

This way you could switch between different cluster groups, as well as have access to muting tracks all from the same mode.

I hope this makes more sense.

Guillaume

[gseher]

OK, I knew I missed something.

I finally found that you can have multiple clusters per track by separating them by blank pages, this gives me about 90% of what I was looking for.

[Jordi]

Guillaume wrote:

Quote:

Each cluster group could be represented by a single slot in grid track mode, regardless of the number of pages in the group.

I would love this.

[gseher]

Guillaume wrote:

Quote:

OK, I knew I missed something.

I finally found that you can have multiple clusters per track by separating them by blank pages, this gives me about 90% of what I was looking for.

Could you try setting the pages in these clusters to repeat more than once and see what happens if you jump from cluster to cluster after each cycle? I was getting inconsistant repeat numbers last time i tried.

[gseher]

Guillaume wrote:

Quote:

Each cluster group could be represented by a single slot in grid track mode, regardless of the number of pages in the group.

This way you could switch between different cluster groups, as well as have access to muting tracks all from the same mode.

Yes this is also something that bothers me, the mutes only deal with the currently playing page. My suggestion was to override the mute state for all tracks based on current page when entering grid track mode, but i think this boils down to the same thing.

But how would you switch cluster-groups here?

Post edited by: chaosmoon, at: 2009/02/12 00:31

[gseher]

I tried switching between clusters with different repeat cycles and didn’t see any inconsistency.

We could use the unused buttons from the grid track live mode to switch clusters. In Nemo it’s rows 5 to 16, in Octopus it would be less, probably 11 to 16.

The mutes dealing the the currently playing page also annoys me, it’s great, but when mixed with clusters, it becomes annoying because, suppose you’re playing a 2 page cluster with no repeat and you mute one or more tracks, then the page changes. You have no way to unmute the track(s) you previously muted before the first page plays again.

Making the grid track live mode mutes affect all tracks in all pages so you can always control what’s muted would be interesting, but that would be the easy way out.

Here’s the hard way:

In grid track live mode, starting with the fact that the mutes would affect all tracks in a cluster. Assuming we have the cluster switching option, you could use edit mode, where you could select clusters, but it would not cue them for playback, and see the mutes for that cluster and change mutes before that cluster plays.

I hope this makes sense.

Guillaume

[gseher]

So is the general opinion that the gridtrack mutes should be de-coupled from the pages, and act universally? I personally am in favor of it to.. seems to simplify the workflow in a lot of cases.. But I thought I’d ask before breaking anything
Cheers,
Gabriel

[gseher]

I would say yes to this.

[gseher]

Quote:

In grid track live mode, starting with the fact that the mutes would affect all tracks in a cluster. Assuming we have the cluster switching option, you could use edit mode, where you could select clusters, but it would not cue them for playback, and see the mutes for that cluster and change mutes before that cluster plays.

i think i’m following, and it sounds good, but global mutes for tracks in clustered pages would be a great first step.

So thats -not surprisingly- a yes from me too.

[gseher]

I have played a bit with making GRIDTRACK mutes act across page boundaries.
While cool in some cases there are a few issues related to usability.
The most important is that now you have two places on the machine where you control the mutestate inside a page. In the worst case, and not so uncommon, a track will not play and you have to check two places to see if its muted. Not good.

Even if we de-couple the modes in the sense that when in GRIDTRACK the mute patterns of GRIDTRACK are applied, and the "normal" mutepattern is applied for the rest, it is awkward as soon as you have switch out of GRIDTRACK, since your composition changes. Not good either.

Another option could be to make track mutes act on the bank, and not on the page level. But I can see how that can lead to problems as well, although for the moment it seems to be the more harmless of the above.

Let me know your thoughts.
Cheers,
Gabriel

[gseher]

Hi,

The place where the current muting system is annoying is exclusively when page clusters are enabled and you are in gridtrack mode.

This new muting system should only come into effect for pages which have clustering enabled.

When clustering is enabled, send the mute/unmute to all pages in the cluster.

If you cluster 2 pages with different tracks muted, they would play as they are, but if you use gridtrack to set/unset a mute for a track, it would apply to all clustered pages.

This way, what you see in page mode would match what you see in gridtrack mode.

I hope this makes sense.

BTW, I found a related bug, in gridtrack mode, you cannot mute/unmute 2 tracks simultaneously, you must do it one at a time. In page mode, you can mute 2 tracks simultaneously.

Guillaume

[gseher]

How about a mix of both?

If GT is entered on a single page, it effects in the same way as now implemented, not effecting any other pages.

If GT is entered on a cluster, the mutes states in the currently playing page within the cluster are immediately -and irreversibly- applied to all pages within that cluster.

Exiting GT mode wouldn’t change anything this way. right?

Post edited by: chaosmoon, at: 2009/03/16 23:55

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