First Impressions + Page Mode Niggles

OS_CE Forums Nemo General First Impressions + Page Mode Niggles

This topic contains 2 replies, has 2 voices, and was last updated by  Julian Parker 9 years, 1 month ago.

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  • #1006

    Julian Parker
    Participant

    Hey all,

    I’ve had my Nemo for a few days now, and have had a blast getting to know it. The machine in general is brilliant in my opinion, but I’ve come across a few weird things in which I thought I’d highlight for discussion.

    – It’s really annoying how grabbing a step in standard Page view deactivates it until you tweak the value there. It can break the flow of a sequence if you are composing on the fly. It would seem to me to be much more logical if the step did not deactivate immediately when you grabbed it (i.e. when you press the button), but instead deactivated when you release the step button. So, the behaviour would be that if you press a step button and release it without adjusting any values, it is toggled on release. If you pressed the step and and then adjusted values, its toggle state would not be changed at all.

    – I don’t really understand why there are three different Page modes (standard, edit, and edit perform). As far as I can tell, the only difference between ‘edit perform’ and standard Page view is the fact that you can’t toggle notes on and off. Is this correct? I can definitely see the point of being able to preview steps audibly (edit mode) and I guess I can see the utility of stopping yourself from accidentally toggling a step. What I don’t understand is why this has to be accomplished by two extra (confusing in my opinion) modes rather than simple toggle switches controlling whether steps are toggled and/or previewed when pressing them. There’s also the issue that being in ‘edit’ or ‘edit perform’ mode prevents you from accessing step or track mode without first switching back to standard page mode.

    – It would be really useful to have more visual feedback when tweaking a particular step in Page mode. Currently, no information is shown whilst tweaking a step in standard Page mode – whilst PIT information is shown in ‘edit’ and ‘edit perform’ mode. Ideally, i’d like to see values for PIT, VEL, LEN and STA displayed in their appropriate rows whilst tweaking in all of these modes. To keep the current distinction between standard and the ‘edit’ modes, maybe it would be good to show offsets in the standard mode and absolute values for the parameters in the ‘edit’ modes?

    Obviously, I’m new – so if any of these complaints are based on misunderstandings please do put me right! It’d be great to hear your thoughts on these issues (especially you Gabriel! ;)).

    Cheers,
    Julian

    Post edited by: jngpng, at: 2009/08/09 21:20

    #2531

    Gabriel Seher
    Participant

    Hello Julian,
    thanks for the feedback and the questions. Please find my thoughts below.

    jngpng wrote:

    Quote:
    – It’s really annoying how grabbing a step in standard Page view deactivates it until you tweak the value there. It can break the flow of a sequence if you are composing on the fly. It would seem to me to be much more logical if the step did not deactivate immediately when you grabbed it (i.e. when you press the button), but instead deactivated when you release the step button. So, the behaviour would be that if you press a step button and release it without adjusting any values, it is toggled on release. If you pressed the step and and then adjusted values, its toggle state would not be changed at all.

    This has to do with the fact that in page mode we want the steps to toggle as soon as you press the button, not release the button. What you suggest would of course solve the issue above, but in my opinion feels unnatural in the general use case where you simply toggle steps.
    However, I’d be interested to hear what others think about it. I will cross post the question in the Octopus forum as well, where a related discussion on page edit modes is going on – thanks for bringing it up. The link to the discussion is here:http://genoqs.net/index.php?option=com_joomlaboard&Itemid=59&func=view&id=25317&catid=5&limit=6&limitstart=18

    Quote:
    – I don’t really understand why there are three different Page modes (standard, edit, and edit perform). As far as I can tell, the only difference between ‘edit perform’ and standard Page view is the fact that you can’t toggle notes on and off. Is this correct? I can definitely see the point of being able to preview steps audibly (edit mode) and I guess I can see the utility of stopping yourself from accidentally toggling a step. What I don’t understand is why this has to be accomplished by two extra (confusing in my opinion) modes rather than simple toggle switches controlling whether steps are toggled and/or previewed when pressing them. There’s also the issue that being in ‘edit’ or ‘edit perform’ mode prevents you from accessing step or track mode without first switching back to standard page mode.

    You bring up an excellent point that was made in parallel in the Octopus discussion I mention above. Please take a look there and feel free to contribute as you see fit. I looks like we have a solution draft, and I’d be interested to hear your thoughts on it.

    Quote:
    – It would be really useful to have more visual feedback when tweaking a particular step in Page mode. Currently, no information is shown whilst tweaking a step in standard Page mode – whilst PIT information is shown in ‘edit’ and ‘edit perform’ mode. Ideally, i’d like to see values for PIT, VEL, LEN and STA displayed in their appropriate rows whilst tweaking in all of these modes. To keep the current distinction between standard and the ‘edit’ modes, maybe it would be good to show offsets in the standard mode and absolute values for the parameters in the ‘edit’ modes?

    I will try this out and see how it feels. Also, I’d love to hear if anyone else have thoughts about this as well.

    Quote:
    Obviously, I’m new – so if any of these complaints are based on misunderstandings please do put me right! It’d be great to hear your thoughts on these issues (especially you Gabriel! ;)).

    Again, thanks for bringing it up.
    My personal feeling is that Page mode should be divided in a cleaner way between the standard (toggle) mode and the Edit mode – which needs some reduction to be more friendly, but in general it provides a good level of distinction between the respective use cases. However, I am attracted to the solution you propose in 1 though, which would probably allow the combination of both modes into a single one..

    Cheers,
    Gabriel

    Post edited by: gseher, at: 2009/09/13 09:49

    #2615

    Julian Parker
    Participant

    Thanks for your reply Gabriel! I’ve actually contributed a little to the discussion you linked already, and it seems like things are moving towards a satisfying solution :)

    Quote:
    This has to do with the fact that in page mode we want the steps to toggle as soon as you press the button, not release the button. What you suggest would of course solve the issue above, but in my opinion feels unnatural in the general use case where you simply toggle steps.

    I guess this is maybe a question of personal preference. Normally when I toggle steps, I press the button and release quickly. In this situation for me, there would be very little difference between the step toggling on ‘button down’ or on ‘button up’. The only time I press and hold a step in this mode, is when I tweak it – in which case the immediate toggle on ‘button down’ is annoying.

    I can see why the current behaviour might be an advantage if you like to toggle steps with a slower button press, but I imagine (perhaps incorrectly!) that most people don’t work this way.

    Anyone else have an opinion on this issue?

    Julian

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